Here follows my interview taken in 2024 for the Bonsai Convention in South Africa!
Thank you Willem Pretorius for giving me this great opportunity to dig up my mind and make visible what floats in there for almost all my life!
Elsa Boudouri from Italy is one of our international headliners at ABC6 from 8-10 November in Stellenbosch. Willem Pretorius asked her a few questions before her arrival.
1) How did your career as a professional musician influence your bonsai style and where did it
all start?
Elsa: Before responding to your question, I should give you some information about my origins. I
was grown in a musical family going back to my grandfather where Greek music was running in our
blood since the moment we opened our eyes in this world.
For those who do not know about Greek music (and I am talking about the old kind), I need to say
that other than pure poetry, it is also mathematics. Take for example Tsitsanis, Hatzidakis,
Theodorakis and so many more that if I continue, we would finish up talking only about them and
not bonsai.
So, when you are born with them, your entire existence realizes the rhythm in every single aspect
of life. You understand that it is all about rhythm, just as it is in music and poetry itself: not only in
human terms, but even further beyond. And just as it is in macrocosmos, so it is in microcosmos
and vice versa.
And this is where we arrive to plants… a kingdom with a very different rhythm to be perceived by
the human consciousness, and yet they are there, responding, moving, defending their existence
and protecting the whole planet. A kingdom that connects the matter with the spirit and uplifts
the latter to other dimensions, outer or inner ones, for as long as one listens carefully and
surpasses their ego.
How this influenced my bonsai style? I just try to follow them… feel their rhythm like when one
listens carefully to the music of a song before they become a part of it and start singing along.
2) You have a very impressive bonsai CV and travel across the world to give lectures in bonsai.
I follow you and know you have lectured in Greece, Italy, Belgium, California, Texas, Florida,
South America, China and have won numerous prizes for your work. The cultural differences
in styles of different countries must be fascinating. What to you is the most obvious factors
that influences how countries develop their own style of bonsai?
Elsa: Well, there are many factors that contribute to a particularity of a region or country. First of
all, this depends on the native species that are available for every country to work with. Certain
species grow in a particular way and bonsai artists need to follow that way. This is logical since any
other different styling would cause an unnatural appearance of the tree, taking away what we call
“albericità” in Italian: every bonsai should be A TREE in a full sense. Certainly, when a work is
developing, there are steps that show different results momentarily, but the goal should always be
a natural final result respecting the character and essence of the tree. Every region can develop
different techniques to arrive to this result, and that is the second factor contributing to the
cultural differences in bonsai. Furthermore, there is also the economic part of each country that
plays a role, and I am referring to the fact that the poorest countries find ingenious means to
develop their techniques on how to educate a tree and bring out their character. Other than that,
there is also the climate and microclimate that can do their part, as well as the artistic influence of
every nation through history that creates a different vision of how art is seen. Bonsai is based on
details and all these differences give a unique flair in every country.
3) When you demonstrated in Rugao in China in 2017 what was to you the big difference
between penjing and bonsai and how the Chinese approach the art?
Elsa: When you see Chinese bonsai, you immediately feel China… great stylization, almost artificial
sometimes I might as well say. Penjing is freer artistically, with more ornate pots and even other
elements included in the composition, like rocks and small plants, whereas bonsai is simpler and
more focused on the naturally stylized beauty of the tree itself, a miniaturized illusion of a mature
tree in nature.
There, I saw a different way of wiring that it really impressed me… the pads of a tree seemed like
embroidery with wire forming a tight net among the branches. I will never forget it! In general,
there are great gardens to visit and admire their work, though too artificial trees are a bit away
from my liking. Different tastes, but always a respected art form.
Two things struck me the most: the Chinese people’s interest in learning our ways gathering over
our heads to absorb all that we were doing when we were working with Enrico Savini, and the way
they were doing their demos… they were not pushing the tree to bring a final result, but on the
contrary, they were just doing a normal step (which would be just a cutting back or basic
positioning of major branches), even if the result would not make any sense to the eyes of the
more inexperienced audience. I appreciate that a lot and I try to do the same for the sake of the
tree, even more because in Europe there have been several cases where trees were pushed too
much during a demo so that the artists can prove themselves and they did not have a good end.
4) You are Greek but also Italian and studied with Enrico Savini. You have a big footprint in
both countries. We are very jealous of the excellent old yamadori that you work with. Tell
us more on your own collection and how you find time to cultivate bonsai where you live.
Elsa: Both Greece and Italy contributed to my artistic approach considering their common history.
They are countries that offered so much to the artistic community that it takes a lifetime to study
and understand the magnitude of their concepts.
I studied (and still study) with my Enrico, my husband and teacher, my best friend, and I will
continue to make his life difficult till the day I leave this world! Ahahaha
He has a great admiration for Greece and I for Italy, so we complete each other like two halves
made for one another.
I used to go for yamadori when I was in Greece, due to my life on the mountains, and when I
moved to Italy, I made a promise to myself not to have a big number of trees again like in the
past… well, I am happy I broke that promise and now I have a huge number again! I think I have a
problem…. Ahahaha
Enrico was the one to open my eyes so as to distinguish a good yamadori among others. However,
my collection is not only yamadori… it is even composed of nursery material and even our own
production from cuttings or seedlings. Some of my best trees come from simple nursery material
that had the appropriate techniques and of course the factor “time”, so you cannot really tell the
difference now.
It is not easy to handle such a big number of trees and I discourage our students from doing the
same by saying that up to 20 trees is the maximum to handle. But most of them simply can’t stop
to 20…. And I am very proud of them! Ahahaha
It is not easy to find the time to cultivate such numbers, and if you even think about the lessons,
the travels, and even sales lately, things become really challenging. But in my life, I always thought
that if you organize your daily program, all things get done bit by bit and there is always time for
what you love. It is as if the whole universe works with you when you dedicate yourself to
something with all your heart.
5) You are one of maybe 10 female bonsai artists in the world. Why do you think is the reason
we have so few female artists and is there a difference in how women approach bonsai?
Elsa: It is true that women are less than men in the bonsai community, but I have met many
women that do bonsai around the world. Maybe there are not so many known artists, but for sure
there are many that do bonsai. They are meticulous and organized, paying great attention to
details, which is what bonsai is all about after all. They demonstrate great determination and force
through their sweetness, like the sea that can smooth out even the hardest rocks with patience
and consistency time after time.
However, it is not easy for a woman to dedicate herself to doing bonsai as there are many
obligations that accompany a woman’s life, like family, children, housework, career, and several
other things that men do not have to incorporate in their daily lives.
For me, it is not easy either. When I was younger, I used to deal with many trivial matters and
waste my time in a chaotic manner here and there, things that I thankfully stopped doing at an
early age. I have learnt to put priorities and how to save and manage my time properly, as it is the
most valuable thing we have in this life and for sure lost time cannot be brought back.
So, I used to go to work, came back late at night and then did bonsai from around midnight till 4 o’
clock in the morning, then slept for a while and then work and bonsai again. I always said that to
my students; if one makes a program for their day, all things find their place and there is even
some free time remaining for a drink with a friend.
6) Have you been to Africa and if I am not mistaken this will make you one of the few artists
that have done demonstrations on all the continents.
Elsa: I have never been to Africa and I thank you for this opportunity you give me to be with you. I
have to admit that I am very excited about it! I heard so many stories about your places from my
father that was a Marine Officer, that I am looking forward to it! As he says, “the apple will fall
under the tree”, so I guess I took after him as travels are concerned.
7) Describe your style and what species you prefer to work on.
Elsa: My style? I have no idea! Ahahaha
I am kidding… I would rather say that I am a chimera or to put it in a bit better way, a hybrid. I am
considered a broadleaf artist but I adore conifers as well. I adore Ulmus, Morus, Olea, Buxus,
Myrtus, Carpinus, Crataegus, Acer, Pinus, Cupressus, Taxus, Juniperus, and many more that I
would make an endless list here if I continue.
As for my style, I stand somewhere between naturalistic and artificial styles without actually
defining or putting a label to something as such. I like natural looking trees that are well structured
with the use of appropriate techniques and evoke emotions that their optical illusion in a pot
should create.
We should not forget that bonsai is art, and therefore too naturalistic ways do not work towards
the optical illusion of a miniature mature tree, but on the other hand, too much art does not lead
to what bonsai should be about… it would be another art form, but not bonsai. That is, artistically
speaking…
For me, bonsai is balance, structure, lines and details that all come to an accordance with each
other in a unique symphony. But no matter what we think about art or styles or anything else, we
should always bear in mind that we are dealing (or I’d rather say cooperating) with a living
creature that deserves all our respect and in my everyday life, bonsai are my babies.
8) The theme of the African Convention is the Ma in Bonsai. Do you think this is an important
aspect of design and how do you interpret this. Don’t give all your secrets away we want to
hear them at the convention!
Elsa: Since we talked initially about music, I will respond with some questions: What is a pause in
between the sound in a musical theme? And how could we appreciate a painting without the
empty spaces on the canvas? Even in poetry, the real meaning lies in between the lines. This is the
place where time seizes to exist and the unseen suddenly becomes visible… where the “obvious”
becomes surprisingly weird as the mind is free to create its own stuff…
9) What gives you the most pleasure in bonsai?
Elsa: Watering! Watering my trees is for me meditation time. It is the time when I observe
everything about them or on them. It is the time of making contact. They know, I know, and we
continue to grow together. So, if someone comes to talk to me at that moment, the Medusa from
the Greek Mythology with the thousands of snakes instead of hair pops out of my head ready to
petrify whoever looks at her… or in the best case, I am just filled with an uncontrollable urge of
accidentally pointing the water tube towards them…
10) Do you have a favorite bonsai? Do you still have the first bonsai that you started with when
you were 14?
Elsa: When I was 14, I was enchanted by a little tree that I took into my room and unfortunately, in
my ignorance, it survived for about a couple of weeks or so. It was a little elm as I came to find out
many years later. I still have the pot, though, which (along with the bitter loss of my first tree) was
the reason to start again with bonsai and this time very seriously. I still have my second “first”
bonsai however, which is a Crataegus that I had saved from the field next to our house many years
ago when I took up bonsai again, and although it is not so special with its characteristics, it is one
of the trees that I will never be apart from.
My favorite bonsai is my Morus I think, and I say “I think”, because there is also my little
Chamaecyparis in a very old antique pot, my Chojubai, my big Crataegus, and a Scotch pine that I
collected and styled during a competition. Next year it will be in its first bonsai pot, so for the
moment I am in search for the right one. Other than that, if you are asking me about a favorite
bonsai outside my collection, I will for sure refer to some of my husband’s collection, and those
would be Zefyros, a Juniperus sabina grafted to Itoigawa, and 2 Scotch pines one of which is
grafted to Senjumaru now lying into a wormeaten mushikui pot, and the other with the most
amazing trunkline I have ever seen in a yamadori, still under construction, which are absolutely
astonishing!
11) You won 2nd prize in the Black Scissors Bonsai Contest in Lithuania. The Black Scissors
fraternity encourages people to think outside the box and be creative. Is that a motivating
factor for you to not just follow the rules but to test the boundaries?
Elsa: The rules are our guide so as to learn faster while staying on the right path and engaging
ourselves in the best possible way by avoiding mistakes that we would realize only years later. So,
if we do not wish to rediscover the wheel, we need them to save up our valuable time. Once we
have learnt the rules and developed a sense of balance and aesthetics, we can safely (and we
should) try to go beyond, otherwise there is no progress in whatever we are doing. For us,
humans, creativity is essential, and it makes the world move, but for as long as it is balanced and
does not bring opposite results. So… if I may say: Do not stick to the rules, but respect them as
they have a reason for being there.
Last but not least, I would like to thank you for this interview… it travelled me many years ago and
made me dig up my mind. There were so many things that I wanted to write about but, honestly, I
would end up writing a book, so I had to stop before doing so! Ahahaha
I can’t wait to be in Africa in November and talk with each and every one of you in person to hear
about your stories and experiences as well. See you soon!
Kind regards,
Elsa Boudouri
